We've only seen Bertie in one episode and a few spoilers, but he and Edith are quickly becoming my otp! How do others feel about their relationship?
We've only seen Bertie in one episode and a few spoilers, but he and Edith are quickly becoming my otp! How do others feel about their relationship?
As to the storyline of Bertie (and Edith), which I liked very much: but in fact it is all about Bertie and not about Edith. OK he loves her very much (for his own sake?) and no doubt it will make a happy marriage, but he does not show any empathy for her. Like: I want to marry you (on the sofa) and not 'do you want to marry me?' Same conversation in the park when he became Marquess. He needed her....Besides, all the way he ignored all the signs of her hesitation, never wondered or asked why. He just wanted it his way (only child?). Also at the Ritz it was all about his life and feelings without her, not asking how SHE felt. In the press was written that he made excuses to her: I can't really find them...
I disagree. Bertie's proposal on the sofa was very sweet. He was humble (he hadn't much to offer in the worlduy terms, only much love). He showed empathy both giving Edith time to consider and promising straightawy that she can bring Marigold.
When he came to Downton as a Marquess, he was in a state of shock: he mourned his beloved cousin and doubted his abilities to fulfill his new duties. In the situation his plea "I need you" was deeply moving as it showed his admiration and trust in Edith.
It's true that he didn't notice the warning signs, but it's usual in conversations. If a man is deeply in love, he thinks that his beloved is without faults, not suspects her of dark secrets.
If one compares Bertie's behavior with that of Henry, one notices that it was the latter who wanted it his way.
I think the scene was a lackluster.
Fellowes completely ignored the issue of trust which had caused Bertie to part from Edith. Because Edith hadn't told him, so he couln't trust her.
He should have explained what had made him change his mind and trust her again. F.ex. that he had came to understand that Edith had tried to collect her courage tell him in the corridor but he didn't give her a chance ("I take it yes").
Most of all, it should have been Bertie who wanted to meet Edith and who then contacted Rosamund to arrange the meeting.
Mary wasn't needed at all. How could she persue him in the telephone when teh telephones were situated in the places where anybody could hear calls?
I really do like Bertie and especially in the way he was performed by Harry Hadden-Paton (chapeau!). The character Fellowes made of him is vulnerable, humble and sensitive (was he bullied in his youth - apart from his mother?) and it is a pity that this character is not worked out better. Therefore I am puzzled why he ignored all the signs Edith threw up...On the sofa he would have fulfilled any wish of Edith, he with nothing to offer but...love. Obviously he was shocked by the death of his cousin, but the way he reacted on the news of Marigold should not have surprised him. Again no empathy for Edith, an illegitimate child must have caused a lot of sorrow in those days. And again no empathy for Edith at the Ritz. Not asking how have you been, but : I want you back and I want to marry you and almost tears about him having to live without her. Instead of : Do want me back and still want to marry me. Edith even told him that he broke her heart, no empathic reaction at all... May be Bertie and Edith will be the new mr. Darcy and Elizabeth, but Darcy in the end at least apologised for his earlier behaviour. And then in the case of Marigold he in fact treated his mother in the same way he blamed Edith for, not telling. From the spoiler showing the reunion at the Ritz I had also expected him to ask Rosamund for mediation or even Rosamund (who experienced the whole drama with Marigold from the beginning ) informing him about the sad life Edith had for years but still surviving in an admirable way, and consequently he could have changed his mind then, still loving her so much. But not Mary. I think Fellowes had to fill in what the Dowager asked Mary : to make up with her sister. As I wrote earlier : a spin off at Brancaster - a few years later - could offer a lot of new stories and information, especially on the background of Bertie....
I think what is good about Bertie and Edith is we would like to see more of them. We already care, but we want more. The problem I had with Mary and Henry is hat I needed more to believe in them as a couple, but I wasn't interested in them. I think Bertie was empathetic, it was in his character to be, but we didn't see it because of timing. When he stood up to his mother though he says her story makes him admire her more. So it is certainly hinted at that he understands Edith a bit better now. I could do with knowing more about Bertie, but at least I feel like there is more to know. Unlike Henry.
I liked Bertie very much, also we have to understand that he is a "gentleman" of his time, so talk about certain topics is forbidden. Thats why i think that he didnt "apologized" with Edith in the Ritz, because in their logic talk about it is bring back all those bad moments, but when Edith told him about how he broke her hearth he lowed his head (sing of embarrassment). For example, in that kind of language he knew that Edith had a relation with Gregson because he praised the flat and nodded when Edith told about the good taste and cleverness of Gregson, also when he talked about his cousin and how he painted the "young men" of tangiers he corrected inmediatily to say "i mean scenes of local life" implying that he talk too much about it.
And i think the principal reason of why he ignored the doubts in Edith was because he was seeing her in rose tinted glasses, plus he has a lot in his plate, the death of his beloved cousin and knowing that he was going to be in parade 24/7 as the new marquess. And in comparison with Robert, Henry, Bates, Carson, Gregson was a lot more empathetic with Edith.
We know little about his past, besides that he was in the army, but he said that he was working as a agent 1.5 years. So he retired from the army in 1923 aprox, in that time only professional officers composed the army; voluntary officers like Matthew or Gregson were discharged in 1919. So Bertie was trained as professional officer before the war, and to 1923 only the best officers keep their post because the army was reduced in consideration of costs of war. So we can assume, that he was a competent officer and also a land agent for the way he conducted himself when the Crawleys opened the house. His personality i think that was influenced by his parents, especially his mother. Apart from his name "Bertie" he reminded me the character of George VI in the king speech, humble, overlooked and for that reason unassuming.
And i think the principal reason of why he ignored the doubts in Edith was because he was seeing her in rose tinted glasses, plus he has a lot in his plate, the death of his beloved cousin and knowing that he was going to be in parade 24/7 as the new marquess. And in comparison with Robert, Henry, Bates, Carson, Gregson was a lot more empathetic with Edith.
That's my interpretation, too. He regarded her as an ideal woman without any fault. He supposed that she *knew* what kind of man he was: that he could be trusted and it wouldn't make any difference to his feelings and intentions if she told about Marigold.
On the basis of common sense, how on earth could Edith know that Bertie was different from other men? You can't know beforehand 100-% sure whom you can trust, you can know it only afterwards. It was no wonder that Edith was afraid.
However, the Ritz scene ignored also *why* Edith did wrong. She thought only about her own happiness. If she had thought about Bertie's happiness, she had told him straigthaway because she couldn't betray him.
Yes, Mary wasn't needed at all as a mediator. Fellowes tried to "redeem" Mary but didn't succeed well IMO.
If a character on purpose hurts somebody, her redemption is not shown with a nice deed that costs her nothing. Instead, it must be that she wants to do bad but wins her urge and does good.
On the basis of common sense, how on earth could Edith know that Bertie was different from other men? You can't know beforehand 100-% sure whom you can trust, you can know it only afterwards. It was no wonder that Edith was afraid.
However, the Ritz scene ignored also *why* Edith did wrong. She thought only about her own happiness. If she had thought about Bertie's happiness, she had told him straigthaway because she couldn't betray him.
I did feel the Ritz scene was rushed through a bit. While Bertie said he'd been doing badly since calling off Edith's engagement, he could've elaborted on that more. He could have said he realized he still loved her inspite of the loss of trust, and perhaps realized not only that she did try to tell him the night before, but that if he had been in her shoes he would have been just as nervous to speak to her. In some ways Edith's hesitance reminds me of Mary's in telling Matthew about Pamuk. Edith and Bertie also I thought would come to an agreement to keep no more secrets from one another, but we never saw that.
On the other hand, I'm still glad that Edith and Bertie reunited. I actually think it's because she did not speak up to Bertie before is why she chose to tell the truth to his mother right away.
Yes. And Bertie had to show that he could stand by her against her.
But also Brancaster scenes were too rushed.
Fellowes should have given Edith and Bertie more scenes in the finale and leave some of other scenes out and/or handled them earlier.